Jaclyn Trop, host and automotive reporter, picked up Catt Sadler, journalist and former host at E!, for a joyride around her Los Angeles neighborhood to talk about Hollywood, her passion for authenticity in everything she does, and cars. Catt tells us how she redesigned her life on her own terms after her eye-opening discovery she was paid half as much as her male co-host, and how she continuously pushes boundaries in her professional and personal life.

Our car, the 2019 Lexus LS 500h, was equipped with the Mark Levinson Reference Sound System— 23 speakers in 16 locations. Our partner, Mark Levinson, was born from the soul of a passionate musician with an uncompromising devotion to audio perfection. Mark Levinson brings an exhilarating music experience to every passenger, in every vehicle, during each and every ride.

How long have you lived here? 

We have lived in Hancock Park for at least 10 years now. I’ve only been in L.A. about 13 years, but this neighborhood has been home for a while. My kids went to elementary school here, they could walk to their school, and as you’ll see here in a second, there’s Larchmont Village, which is darling. 

Let me tell you about what we’re driving. This is a Lexus LS 500h. It is a hybrid with a V6 engine, two electric motors, and 354 horsepower. It also has the 2,400-watt Mark Levinson sound system. What car did you learn to drive in?

I grew up in Indiana and the car I learned to drive on was my grandfather’s 1960s Chevrolet. It was a column gearshift, so that was really weird. I was literally in the middle of the farmland driving a pickup truck. We had a couple stick shifts in our family, so I did learn to drive a stick pretty young. It’s funny because a lot of people don’t drive them anymore, but my boyfriend is a huge car fanatic and I’ve been to the track racing with him before. I mean, we’re talking speeds of 150 mph on the racetrack. He refuses to get a car unless it’s a stick. I think that was one of his prerequisites for dating anyone. It was like, ‘Can you drive a stick?’ I think that sealed the deal.

You launched a podcast called Naked this summer. How did the show come about? 

I have been a journalist for decades now, and I covered entertainment news every single day. You would go out and do an interview that might be 30 minutes, but on the news that night it would be whittled down to two minutes. I was barely scratching the surface in a lot of my interviews and conversations with obviously fascinating people. When I left E!, I really got to design this new chapter of my life. Number one, I love the art of the interview. But number two, I really wanted to do it in a way that felt meaningful and had more purpose. When I started exploring the podcast space, I saw the majority of them are done in a conference room at a big network. They’re done around what looks like a board room table. That just felt a little sterile to me. I’d been on a lot of podcasts so I thought, ‘How do I invoke a real vulnerability? How can I, especially with women, make them feel safe and disclose real parts of themselves to me in an effort to make other women feel empowered?’ That was really the design, and then this idea about ‘naked.’ The word ‘naked’ is obviously synonymous with bearing it all, but then when the podcast idea came to me, I thought, ‘What if we were naked? Is that even a possibility?’ I remember having a creative session with a couple people and they were like, ‘Ha, like people would really be naked.’ And then I was like, ‘Wait a minute, why not?’ Because if we design it the right way, and we make women feel safe and it’s an all-female crew, and it’s in my bedroom, maybe that’s not the craziest idea ever. In fact, in the first interview we did for Naked —it wasn’t the first one to air, but the first one we actually recorded —my guest literally took her top off without me saying, ‘Please, show us your boobs.’ She said, ‘If we’re doing this, we’re going big,’ and she took her top off and we did the interview with her topless and it wasn’t a big deal.

So many podcasts purport to say something new, but a lot of them don’t deliver. Yours does that really well. In the Olivia Munn episode I thought, ‘She’s just like me.’ 

That’s what I hope people think. For a lot of people, these celebrities and public figures seem so far removed from any kind of reality, but the fact is they’re just like you. Behind all the glam and the manicured existence on Instagram and all the gloss that is Hollywood, we’re all just the same at the end of the day. We all are similar in our struggles. 

How did you make the decision to leave E! when you found out your co-host was earning double your salary? What was that emotional journey like?

You can imagine it was a kaleidoscope of emotions over a very long time. It was many, many months. It ranged from learning about the initial disparity and being upset and angry, to being embarrassed. You have to remember this was almost three years ago, so I was really surprised. At the time, it wasn’t something that was at all in the conversation culturally. People weren’t talking about it as outwardly [as they are now], so that was kind of an a-ha moment for me to go, ‘Hold on.’ I had never even asked. I didn’t know. Stupid me, really. Part of that was frustration in myself that I never asked. 

It’s something that people don’t think to ask or feel comfortable asking. 

A lot went into my decision. It was many months before I knew that I would actually leave. Obviously I would have preferred to have stayed, so my team and I asked them to meet us ballpark, and we were denied and denied. I had told my team even six months before I left that if we don’t get in the ballpark in negotiations, I’m done here. I wouldn’t be doing a service to myself, the viewers, or my employer if I were to stay based on the principle that I knew what they were paying was unfair. Ethically, I wouldn’t have been good at my job anymore. I’m just that person. It would have been written all over my face every day. So when we didn’t get there I followed through on my promise to myself and my career and my family, and I said, ‘We’re done.’ That was very difficult. And then I had to make the decision of whether I would even share the reason why I left. It’s one thing to say, ‘Fine, I’m not going to renew my contract, and I’m choosing to leave,’ but it’s another thing to go, ‘OK, do I share this with the viewers? Do I tell the world?’ It wasn’t easy, and it was scary. I’d be saying goodbye to lots of executives, a lot of industry people I’d worked with for over a decade. How would I be perceived, how would future employees look at me, would I be blacklisted, am I going to have that reputation of being a b-tch or a diva or whatever? But it was just flat out wrong, and I was like, ‘This is my truth.’ I didn’t enter the business two years ago; I’d been doing this for twenty years. I was like, ‘F-ck it, this is my story so I’m gonna share it.’ What I didn’t know was if anyone would A) care or B) notice. I didn’t do it to garner attention at all.

Did any of those fears come to light? 

No. That was the most humbling and comforting thing in the world. I thought, ‘Wow, there was a real reward for not backing down.’ I  received so much support from people cheering me on, and Twitter even publicly defended me when the network had some really lame justifications as to why they didn’t pay me. Not to be too meta about it, but I feel like it was bigger than me, and the universe had this plan. I think everything collided around an interesting time. #MeToo had been in the news for many months when I left. Time’s Up became an organization after I left. How people consume news is so different. It used to be that TV was the be-all and end-all, but that’s all changing. I’m exploring all this exciting new space digitally and streaming and my own branding and my podcast and the new TV show, which is completely different from anything I’ve ever done before. I am just leaning in to what I like to call this new season of building and learning, and I feel so invigorated by it all. It doesn’t come without a lot of work. I have to curate a lot more and create a lot more, and everyday means getting up and being my own boss. The pay is different now. It doesn’t come every two weeks, so there are certainly risks involved. It comes full circle to believing in your worth and your ability and your experience. It’s like, ‘I think the world will take care of me because I’m doing okay. I’m working hard. I’m a decent, kind person.’ I think if we can all operate with that, we’ll all land on our feet. When I left E!, what I couldn’t have imagined was people responding the way they did and the minute they did, that’s when I had that real a-ha moment. I thought, ‘Holy hell. How many women, how many girls —I don’t care if you’re 18 or if you’re 65 —have been through or suffered something similar in all different industries?’ People are frustrated, they’re not getting promotions. A guy walks into the same damn job and is paid exponentially more, so you see how I start getting fired up about it. 

We get fired up, too. 

I am fired up. I did not ask to be the poster child for equal pay, but after the story was out there and garnered the attention it did, I heard from so many people via email and DMs and my website saying, ‘Please keep fighting this fight.’ I felt like I had an obligation to keep talking and learn all I could about it. I was not an expert on the subject. I had just been personally victimized, but I thought, ‘Now I need to learn. When is equal pay day? When is International Women’s Day? How can I champion other women? How can I make enough noise to keep the conversation going?’ So that’s what I did. 

Did they try to meet you in the middle? 

No. It was a lot of back and forth, but what they ultimately offered was just an incremental, standard raise. It was too big of a leap for them in the end. But I also couldn’t threaten them. I couldn’t say, ‘Well if you don’t pay me, I’m going to tell my story.’ It was none of that. It was just, ‘He’s making this, we’ve been here the same amount of years, we contribute to the network the same. We have, by all accounts, the same apples to apples.’ It was like, ‘Do the right thing. Do the right thing.’ … I think that a lot of powerful corporations think that women at my age with two kids wouldn’t walk. It’s too good of a job. There are how many people standing in line to do that job? Some of whom would do it for free. I don’t think they thought I had the balls.

Do you think they were surprised? 

Yeah. I think they were surprised I left and I think they were absolutely stunned when people really cared why. 

What can people do to level the playing field for pay and salary?

I wish there were some real legislation, but as an individual, it’s about using your voice. Asking for transparency. Talking to your coworkers. It almost requires the guys being our allies—because, by the way, it’s not their fault if they’re being offered more. It’s not their fault it’s a systematic thing. The lack of transparency and negotiation is a big factor in why women are paid less. As of a year ago, only 30 percent of women bothered to negotiate their salaries because it’s so taboo and we’re afraid of how we’re perceived. We need more women in leadership because the more women fighting at the top, the more chance we all have to evolve and progress professionally. If you are in a job where you’re unhappy or you feel undervalued or frustrated, I always say have a really good exit strategy. Don’t just up and quit—most people can’t financially. Record your wins at the company, write down the things you’ve accomplished, keep track of the clients and praise for your wins. Gather up all that information and keep track of it so that when you do negotiate, the proof is in the pudding.

Your mom is a notable advocate for women here and around the world. What is the mission of the organization she founded, Women Like Us?

Speaking of strong women, my mom is certainly that, and she’s dedicated most of her life to championing women in a lot of different areas. She has a foundation that she started more than a decade ago called Women Like Us, and it’s an organization that does a lot of outreach to support women-lead causes. Here in Los Angeles she’s been part of a mentoring program at the Dream Center helping women with clothes and getting off the street. She’s helped orphanages in Kenya. I’ve traveled to Africa with her and her organization for educating girls there who otherwise wouldn’t be. Her biggest focus lately —a lifelong dream for her — is the Women Like Us center she created not far from Nairobi. Women come to learn about jobs that can help sustain their community and help the local economy. My mom just turned 70. I’m so impressed by her and proud of her. She’s also published a lot of books about the stories that she’s had with different women and lifting them up and what women have taught her. If women do want to get involved in Women Like Us, go to the website, womenlikeusfoundation.org. My mom was a feminist long before it was acceptable to be one. She’s always been a strong force in my life, and she’s always taught me to use my voice and stand up for myself. So that without question was part of my decision to quit E! My mom wasn’t even sweating it. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, what if you don’t get another job?’ It was none if that. It was like, ‘You’re better than this. Pack up, let’s go.’ I’m like, ‘OK.’ 

What’s another time when you didn’t settle for less than what you felt you deserved?

It goes back to being synonymous with operating on your own terms, like ‘I’m gonna do this my own way.’ For me, that was when I had my first son, Austin. I was in San Francisco at the time working on a local TV show, and I’d been in the business only three years. I had this great gig in San Francisco when Austin was born. I was having the worst anxiety I’d ever had in my life because I knew I was going to have to go back to work full-time and pay the rent and put my first-born little baby into a very expensive daycare to be away all week. After a lot of soul searching, I said, ‘I’m going to quit my TV job and take one year to move back to Indiana.’ Luckily my husband at the time got a job transfer. I took one year off to have this time with my son that I may never, ever have had again. Everyone kind of wrote me off, like, ‘Oh, she’s leaving television to go be a mom. She’s done with her career.’ I just made that promise to myself that I would be back. Literally one year to the day after he was born, on March 8^th, I signed my next contract to be back on television.

What is the key to defining success on your own terms?

It looks different for everyone. If you pay attention to your instincts and your gut, it will serve you. I really do believe if you get intimately familiar with that and if we help ourselves then we’re helping others. We’re all on a good frequency that way, you know? 

What do you listen to when you need to get into boss mode?

Three artists that I just blast really loud when I want to get hyped are Ariana Grande — “7 Rings” is very pro-female — and Beyoncé and Rihanna. When I want to get real funky, I’ll do some Cardi B.

Favorite road trip jams?

When I’m on a road trip I’m usually with my boyfriend, and he loves country music. It’s funny because he was born and raised in L.A. We listen to everything from Kacey Musgraves and Blake Shelton to my kids’ hip-hop. I let them take the wheel on that.

If you could go for a drive with anyone, who would it be?

It sounds so cliché, but probably Oprah. I’m also feeling that Julia Roberts is supposed to be on my podcast, so I’d really like to go for a drive with her and discuss if she’d like to come on. Like “Thelma & Louise,” with Julia Roberts and me and the legal parts that don’t put us in jail.